Be fundamentally different, not incrementally better | Jag Duggal (Nubank, Facebook, Google, Quantcast)

Jag Duggal is chief product officer at Nubank, a decacorn neobank founded in Brazil. It’s valued at over $30 billion, is bigger than Coinbase, Robinhood, Affirm, and SoFi combined, has 100 million customers (more than Bank of America!) while only operating in three countries in Latin America, and 80% to 90% of its growth comes through word of mouth. Prior to Nubank, Jag was a director of product management at Facebook, a senior vice president at Quantcast, and a product leader at Google. In our conversation, we discuss:

• How Nubank builds a fanatical user base

• Tactics for driving word-of-mouth growth

• Measuring customer love through the Sean Ellis score

• The importance of strategic clarity

• The role of category design in creating successful products

• Why companies should strive to be “fundamentally different,” not “incrementally better”

• Nubank’s vision for an AI-powered banking future

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Find the transcript at: www.lennysnewsletter.com

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Where to find Jag Duggal:

• LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: twitter.com

• LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Jag’s background

(04:34) Nubank’s remarkable achievements

(06:01) Nubank’s product development process

(11:23) Nubank’s values

(12:16) Building products people love fanatically

(15:21) The Sean Ellis score

(21:27) An example project using the Sean Ellis score

(25:07) Picking up the phone and calling customers

(28:20) The importance of starting small and iterating

(30:42) Pushing back effectively

(34:10) Uncovering pain points through customer research

(37:53) An example of setting a clear hypothesis

(42:01) Developing a strategy

(52:16) “Be fundamentally different, not incrementally better”

(53:10) Category design

(57:37) Nubank’s founding story and goals for the future

(01:00:46) Advice for adding new product lines

(01:03:46) The future of fintech and banking

(01:09:23) AI corner

(01:12:34) Failure corner

(01:20:24) Key takeaways

(01:22:11) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• Nubank: nubank.com.br

• Coinbase: www.coinbase.com

• Robinhood: www.robinhood.com

• SoFi: www.sofi.com

• Affirm: www.affirm.com

• Lemonade: www.lemfi.com

• Bank of America: www.bankofamerica.com

• Nubank achieves a world record with more than 7 million people participating in NuBolão in one month: building.nubank.com.br

• Nu México carries out first financial transaction 20 meters under the depth of the sea: www.bnamericas.com

• David Vélez on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com

• Cristina Junqueira on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com

• Edward Wible on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com

• Sequoia Capital: www.sequoiacap.com

• Churrascaria: en.wikipedia.org

• Nubank’s real foundation: our culture and values: building.nubank.com.br

• Working Backwards Press Release Template and Example: www.linkedin.com

• Sean Ellis test: productcoalition.com

• How to know if you’ve got product-market fit: www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Reid Hoffman on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com

• Ultravioleta: Nubank expands its premium card offer and adds new features on the product’s first anniversary: international.nubank.com.br

• Jeff Bezos: Amazon and Blue Origin | Lex Fridman Podcast #405: www.youtube.com

• The Innovation Method Behind Swiffer Madness: www.fastcompany.com

• Kevin Systrom on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com

• Good Strategy, Bad Strategy | Richard Rumelt: www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Good Strategy/Bad Strategy: The Difference and Why It Matters: www.amazon.com

• The Crux: How Leaders Become Strategists: www.amazon.com

• How to become a category pirate | Christopher Lochhead (author of Play Bigger, Niche Down, Category Pirates, more): www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Play Bigger: How Pirates, Dreamers, and Innovators Create and Dominate Markets: www.amazon.com

• Playing to Win: How Strategy Really Works: www.amazon.com

• A framework for finding product-market fit | Todd Jackson (First Round Capital): www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Citi: www.citi.com

• Santander Bank: www.santanderbank.com

• Fidji Sumo on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com

• Harvard Kennedy School: www.hks.harvard.edu

• Susan Wojcicki on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com

• Coldplay—“Lost+” ft. Jay-Z: www.youtube.com

• Google Buys DoubleClick for $3.1 Billion: www.nytimes.com

• Real-time bidding: support.google.com

• From Third World to First: The Singapore Story: 1965-2000: www.amazon.com

• The Gilded Age on HBO: www.hbo.com

• Lomi: lomi.com

• Nubank careers: international.nubank.com.br

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Production and marketing by penname.co. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.