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Bob Moesta is the co-creator of the Jobs To Be Done (JTBD) framework, a close collaborator of Clay Christensen, and CEO and founder of The Re-Wired Group. He has helped launch more than 3,500 new products, services, and businesses and built and sold several startups himself. He is also a fellow at the Clayton Christensen Institute and a guest lecturer at the Harvard Business School, MIT Sloan School of Entrepreneurship, and Northwestern University’s Kellogg School of Management. In this episode, we discuss:
• What Snickers and Milky Way can teach us about JTBD
• The various flavors of the JTBD framework
• Best practices for implementing the framework
• Advice on conducting interviews for B2B vs. B2C customers
• Common mistakes people make when implementing JTBD
• When not to use it
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Find the full transcript at: www.lennysnewsletter.com
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Where to find Bob Moesta:
• Twitter/X: twitter.com
• LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com
• Website: www.therewiredgroup.com
• Podcast: pca.st
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Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: www.lennysnewsletter.com
• Twitter/X: twitter.com
• LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com
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In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Bob’s background
(04:04) A simple explanation of the Jobs To Be Done framework
(07:29) Struggling moments and demand
(09:51) Understanding the context behind pain points
(11:14) Reducing friction in the sales process
(14:46) How Autobooks improved their buying process and 4x’ed conversion
(16:52) The six phases of the buying process
(18:30) The JTBD interview process
(21:55) How Bob’s TBI affected his reading/writing and how he is able to write books
(22:02) Why people switch companies
(27:18) Tips for JTBD interviewing
(30:07) Why you should not have a discussion guide
(32:48) The danger of looking at the customer through the product
(33:53) First steps in applying the JTBD framework
(36:25) Signs people are ready for a change
(37:43) Bob’s “layers of language”
(40:15) Examples of companies with a broad adoption of JTBD
(43:59) The different flavors of JTBD and common mistakes to avoid when implementing it
(48:19) Bob’s work with Clay Christensen on JTBD theory
(51:05) When not to use JTBD
(53:40) Common misconceptions about the framework
(55:55) What compelled Bob to spend so much of his life on JTBD
(58:07) Three big takeaways
(59:07) Lightning round
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Referenced:
• Jason Fried on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com
• Des Traynor on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com
• Southern New Hampshire University: degrees.snhu.edu
• Paul LeBlanc on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com
• Demand-Side Sales 101: Stop Selling and Help Your Customers Make Progress: www.amazon.com
• Autobooks: www.autobooks.co
• Intercom: www.intercom.com
• Zendesk: www.zendesk.com
• HubSpot: www.hubspot.com
• The Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University: www.kellogg.northwestern.edu
• Y Combinator: www.ycombinator.com
• Michael Horn on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com
• Ethan Bernstein on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com
• Never Split the Difference: Negotiating as If Your Life Depended on It: www.amazon.com
• William Edwards Deming on Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org
• Basecamp: basecamp.com
• Sriram and Aarthi on Lenny’s Podcast: www.lennyspodcast.com
• Genichi Taguchi: www.qualitygurus.com
• Tony Ulwick on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com
• The Clayton Christensen Institute on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com
• Shape Up: basecamp.com
• The End of Average: Unlocking Our Potential by Embracing What Makes Us Different: www.amazon.com
• The Big Bang Theory on TBS: www.tbs.com
• Oppenheimer: www.oppenheimermovie.com
• Kyota massage chairs at Costco: www.costco.com
• Paul Adams on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com
• Matt Hodges on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com
• Andrew Glaser on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com
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Production and marketing by penname.co. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.
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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
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