John is joined by Shawn Fagan, the Chief Legal Officer of Citadel LLC, and a key legal figure at Citadel Securities. Citadel is the most profitable hedge fund globally while Citadel Securities is a leading market maker, processing nearly one-third of U.S. equities and options trades. They discuss Shawn’s insights into the unique legal challenges of these rapidly growing organizations. Shawn has essentially four clients: Citadel, Citadel Securities, founder Ken Griffin, and Griffin’s family office. His responsibilities extend beyond legal oversight to include regulatory affairs and compliance and reflect the complexities of modern finance. Shawn’s journey to Citadel was unconventional. He started as a litigator at Bartlett Beck, a boutique trial firm, where he spent nearly half his time in trial. He participated in high-profile cases, including Bush v. Gore, but ultimately realized that trial work was not his passion. A chance meeting with Ken Griffin led to an in-house opportunity at Citadel, where he has been for 20 years. In that time, Citadel has grown from 1,000 employees with $12 billion in AUM to 4,900 employees with $65 billion in AUM. The focus of his role at Citadel is building the right teams to meet the demands of rapidly growing markets around the world, developing technology to ensure regulatory compliance across trillions of transactions every day, and maintaining consistent standards in an organization that is growing as rapidly as Citadel. Citadel has engaged in several high-profile legal battles, including lawsuits against the SEC and IRS, reflecting Citadel’s willingness to challenge regulations it views as unreasonable and unduly burdensome. In retaining outside counsel, Shawn looks for lawyers with a strategic vision who can articulate a clear path to winning cases.

John is joined by David Elsberg, the Founding Partner of two law firms, most recently Elsberg, Baker & Maruri. They discuss the experience of starting a law firm, including the motivations, challenges, and rewards of building a law firm from the ground up. David is a former Quinn Emanuel partner. He was inspired to start his own firms by the accounts of John and other Quinn Emanuel partners of the satisfaction they felt from building something new. He wanted the challenge of starting a firm and learning the business side of legal practice. Although running a law firm requires a different skill set from practicing law, starting a law firm is not particularly difficult compared to other businesses. Success depends primarily on assembling the right people. At first, David was intimidated by the non-legal aspects of starting a business, such as setting up payroll and office infrastructure, but found that hiring skilled professionals made the process manageable. The most critical factor for success is selecting lawyers who are not only talented, but work well together. Before starting a new firm, founders should carefully disengage from their current firm. They need to walk a tightrope in how they communicate their departure to their current firm’s management, colleagues, and clients. Boutique litigation firms now attract high quality associates because they offer young lawyers more trial experience and closer client relationships. Many clients also appreciate the hands-on approach of a smaller firm without the bureaucracy of a large organization. David’s firm prioritizes trial work, handling high-stakes disputes, particularly in finance. He has found that, while it involves risk, the rewards of independence and creativity in a start-up firm are significant.

In the second episode in this series recorded before a live audience in China, John is joined by Richard Ma, Founder of the Dahui law firm; Xiao Liu, Quinn Emanuel’s Chair of China Practice and Chief Representative of the Beijing Office; and Yixuan Zhu, partner in Quinn Emanuel’s Beijing office. They discuss building their respective firms, establishing their firms’ cultures, global expansion strategies, and challenges in cross-border legal practice. Dahui was established to better serve clients, particularly in fast-evolving new economy industries like technology, media, telecommunications, and healthcare. Dahui adopted a boutique approach—being the best at what it did and providing full-service legal support to its clients. Expanding carefully, the firm analyzes whether expanding into a new city will assist its clients and whether it can attract top tier local talent. The Chinese legal market is also trending towards firms expanding into “second-tier” Chinese cities such as Wuhan, Nanjing, and Chongqing where an increasing number of disputes arise. Quinn Emanuel’s global expansion has been largely talent-driven and opportunistic, seeking exceptional lawyers to open offices rather than following a predetermined plan. In addition, the globalization of business has led to a globalization of disputes with proceedings in multiple jurisdictions and key witnesses living around the world. Firms with talented lawyers throughout the world are simply better suited to effectively represent clients in such cases. Both firms work to maintain firm cultures that emphasizes competitiveness and client service. Quinn Emanuel has a tradition of sending firm wide “victory emails” to celebrate case wins and instill a results-driven mindset. Dahui values commitment to precision and professionalism, ensuring high standards in legal work. On the evolving Chinese legal market, Dahui bridges the gap between international clients and China’s regulatory landscape, correcting misconceptions and ensuring successful investments and dispute resolutions. As Chinese companies continue to expand globally, demand for international dispute resolution will likely rise. Legal complexities stemming from U.S.-China tensions will also likely provide opportunities for experienced litigators to navigate shifting regulatory and geopolitical landscapes.​

In the first of a series of podcasts recorded before a live audience in China, John is joined by Professor Gao Xiqing, the former Vice Chairman, President and Chief Investment Officer of the China Investment Corporation, the largest Chinese Sovereign Wealth. They discuss Prof. Gao’s extraordinary career from his early days building a railroad in rural China during the Cultural Revolution to earning his JD at Duke and becoming one of the first Chinese lawyers to pass the New York bar and work at a major Wall Street firm. Prof. Gao’s work on Wall Street led to him explaining, as a third year associate, the causes of the Black Friday stock market crash to Chinese business and government leaders. Later he was called back to China to design its first stock exchange and the Chinese regulator equivalent to the SEC. They also discuss Prof. Gao’s role in running the China Investment Corporation (CIC), one of the world’s largest sovereign wealth funds. CIC invests only in private businesses outside of China, purchases less than a 10% stake in those companies, and splits its investments roughly evenly between publicly traded companies and private equity. Finally, they discuss Prof. Gao’s perspective on Sino-American relations. He believes that, viewed in perspective, the two countries have grown much closer since the days of the Cold War and that common cultural values, such as the drive to work hard and achieve, will lead to closer relations in the future

John is joined by Michael Ng, partner at Kobre & Kim. They discuss the $604 million verdict Michael recently won in a trade secrets case in Alameda County Superior Court in California. The punitive damages phase of the trial is expected to take place in the Spring. The case centered on allegations that Phillips 66 misappropriated Propel Fuels’ trade secrets while conducting due diligence for a potential acquisition that ultimately did not proceed. Michael explains that Propel Fuels, a pioneer in renewable fuels, accused Phillips 66 of using proprietary data, including financial models, market research, and operational strategies, to replicate Propel’s business. Despite Phillips 66’s claims that it had no need for Propel’s information, Michael and his team demonstrated that the trade secrets were not only accessed but directly used to launch Phillips 66’s renewable fuels business. The evidence Michael’s team presented included internal Phillips 66 documents and testimony that showed the rapid deployment of Phillips 66’s business mirroring Propel’s proprietary model. Michael reviews the strategic decisions he made that led to the verdict, including choosing to proceed in state court rather than federal court, providing a detailed pretrial trade secrets disclosure, selecting jurors with technical expertise, and proactively calling a key defense witness during Propel’s case-in-chief. He also describes how the trial team effectively explained the complex market and regulatory dynamics of renewable fuels through their clients’ testimony and expert witnesses. John and Michael also discuss Propel’s damages case, which was based on an unjust enrichment theory that emphasized the head start Phillips 66 gained by leveraging Propel’s trade secrets. Michael describes internal Phillips 66 communications stating that Propel’s information gave Phillips 66 a ten year head start on entering the renewable fuels market. Finally, John and Michael also discuss broader trends in trade secrets litigation, including the growing importance of trade secret law in emerging technologies like AI and machine learning, where trade secrets often offer more protection than patents.

John is joined by Catrin Griffiths and Christian Smith, the Editor-in-Chief and Litigation Editor of The Lawyer. They discuss legal journalism in the UK. John, Catrin and Christian agree that UK legal reporting is more analytical and critical of law firm strategies than U.S. legal journalism. They attribute this to the UK’s centralized legal market in London and a British journalistic culture that favors accountability and critical analysis. They explain that The Lawyer, originally a print magazine, has evolved into a digital platform combining news, data, and insight, providing in-depth analysis of law firms’ performance and strategy. The publication operates like a financial news outlet dedicated to the legal sector, reflecting the industry’s significant contribution to the UK economy. It covers everything from major legal trends to firm strategies and even lighter, cultural stories within firms. They also discuss the growing dominance of U.S. law firms in London, noting that American firms often outpace UK firms, perhaps due to longer working hours and more streamlined management. Catrin explains that UK firms historically thrived with strong infrastructure and global networks, though they now face challenges adapting to market changes. They also address cultural differences, such as the early retirement age at UK firms, contrasting with U.S. firms where partners often work well into their 70s. Catrin and Christian also explain the importance of maintaining authenticity when law firms engage with journalists. They advise against corporate jargon and encourage honest dialogue. Finally, they discuss how stories about small quirky aspects of a firm’s culture can often reflect broader trends and resonate with readers.

John is joined by one of the most famous litigators in the world, David Boies, Chairman and Founding Partner of Boies Schiller Flexner. They discuss David’s career, unique aspects of trial work, and the challenges of transitioning leadership in law firms. David describes his early years at Cravath, Swaine & Moore, LLP, where he became a partner in 1972, and his founding of Boies Schiller in 1997. He candidly discusses the aging process, especially the balance that exists between somewhat diminishing memory and the ever-improving judgment that comes with experience. Despite plans to step down as Chairman of his firm at the end of the year, David remains engaged in high-stakes litigation, particularly cases which may improve society, such as marriage equality and sex trafficking litigation. John and David also discuss trial advocacy. David believes that trials are both morality plays and peculiar searches for truth, shaped by a unique decision-making process that excludes jurors with specialized knowledge and forbids them from seeking knowledge in the ways they are accustomed to. They also discuss the unique pressures on courtroom lawyers, including the need to say everything right in real time, having a professional constantly trying to make you look bad, a jury that studies everything you say or do, and clients watching whose fortune or liberty depends on your performance. John and David also discuss the business of law, critiquing the hourly billing model and reflecting on the challenges of aligning client and firm interests in alternative fee arrangements. They agree that legal practice, while demanding, remains intellectually and personally rewarding. David also offers his thoughts on his late friend and sometimes adversary Ted Olson, whose integrity, warmth, and professionalism left a lasting impact. Finally, John and David discuss the possibility of a follow-up to David’s book Courting Justice, which chronicled significant cases from his career in light of the major cases he has had in the years since the book was published.

2025年1月5日，我们与您相约北京，共赴法律界的视听盛宴！ 昆鹰创始合伙人John Quinn将携手几位中国法律界的重量级嘉宾，为您带来一场别开生面的“中国特别系列”线下播客录制活动和粉丝见面会。John将和几位嘉宾“神仙对谈”，畅聊中国企业全球化的机遇与挑战、中美法律市场的新趋势，以及John Quinn自己作为诉讼律师及“全球最令人畏惧的律所”创始人的精彩故事。接下来几天，神秘特邀嘉宾将陆续揭晓，精彩不容错过！ 📅 时间：2025年1月5日周日下午 📍地点：北京朝阳区（具体地点报名后通知） *本次活动不进行直播，届时现场将提供同声传译 席位有限，立即报名，与法律界顶尖人物面对面交流！ Mark your calendars for January 5, 2025, as we bring the legal world’s most exciting conversations to life in Beijing! JoinJohn Quinn and some of China’s most prominent legal figures for an exclusive live podcast series recording and fan meet up. John and his guests will discuss the opportunities and challenges ofChinese companies going global, the evolving trends in the legal markets ofChina and the U.S., and John’s own extraordinary journey as a leading litigator and the founder of the “Most Feared Law Firm in the World.” Stay tuned over the next few days as we unveil a lineup of special guests! 📅Date: January 5, 2025 (Sunday afternoon) 📍Location: Chaoyang District, Beijing (Details upon registration) Register NOW! Seats are limited—don’t miss your chance to engage with the brightestminds in the legal industry!

In this episode of Law, disrupted, host John B. Quinn joins Joe Hage, a litigator and founder of HENI, an international art and technology services business based out of London. They are also joined by Luke Nikas, a partner at Quinn Emanuel’s New York office who also heads up the firm’s art litigation practice. The three unpack what a non-fungible token (NFT) is, and how traditional intellectual property principles apply to them. Referencing the legal battle between Hermes and the creator of “MetaBirkin” NFTs, they discuss issues relating to intellectual property infringement, and the sorts of questions they raise for brand owners, artists, and businesses. They then move on to discuss the potential regulatory, securities law and transparency issues that come with digital ownership, as well as the breadth of opportunity for creators to monetize NFTs beyond digital art and legal implications of those opportunities. _________________________________________________________________________________________________ Law, disrupted LIVE! 北京线下播客特别活动2025年1月5日，我们与您相约北京，共赴法律界的视听盛宴！昆鹰创始合伙人John Quinn将携手几位中国法律界的重量级嘉宾，为您带来一场别开生面的“中国特别系列”线下播客录制活动和粉丝见面会。John将和几位嘉宾“神仙对谈”，畅聊中国企业全球化的机遇与挑战、中美法律市场的新趋势，以及John Quinn自己作为诉讼律师及“全球最令人畏惧的律所”创始人的精彩故事。接下来几天，神秘特邀嘉宾将陆续揭晓，精彩不容错过！ 时间：2025年1月5日周日下午 地点：北京朝阳区（具体地点报名后通知） *本次活动不进行直播，届时现场将提供同声传译席位有限，立即报名，与法律界顶尖人物面对面交流！ "Law, disrupted" … Live in Beijing! Mark your calendars for January 5, 2025, as we bring the legal world’s most exciting conversations to life in Beijing!Join John Quinn and some of China’s most prominent legal figures for an exclusive live podcast series recording and fan meetup. John and his guests will discuss the opportunities and challenges of Chinese companies going global, the evolving trends in the legal markets of China and the U.S., and John’s own extraordinary journey as a leading litigator and the founder of the “Most Feared Law Firm in the World.” Stay tuned over the next few days as we unveil a lineup of special guests! Date: January 5, 2025 (Sunday afternoon) Location: Chaoyang District, Beijing (Details upon registration) Register NOW! Seats are limited—don’t miss your chance to engage with the brightest minds in the legal industry!

In this episode of Law, disrupted, host John B. Quinn is joined by Robert Schwartz, Partner at Quinn Emanuel’s Los Angeles office, and Co-Chair of the Media & Entertainment Industry Practice. Bobby has a nationally recognized reputation for his work in large-stakes, high-octane, and precedent-setting cases that are notably in the entertainment and media fields. The conversation begins by analyzing the rise of Netflix and its disruption to intellectual property, distribution arrangements, and licenses. With an initial business model based around renting DVDs, they explore how it became a pioneer in streaming services by capitalizing on the desire for personalization, especially among the millennial audience. The discussion moves on to address a rise in subscriptions to paid streaming services during the pandemic, and how this has in turn affected movie theaters, attracting talent, and the theatrical exhibition business. They examine Village Roadshow’s lawsuit against Warner Bros regarding the day-and-date release strategy of ‘The Matrix Resurrections,’ and debate whether hybrid releases could be the future of the movie industry. Together they talk through some of the legal challenges arising from contracts agreed prior to the integration of new streaming technology, discuss how broadcast TV is polishing up their traditional offerings with affiliated on-demand streaming services, and break down what deal-making could look like for the entertainment industry hereafter.

John is joined by Robert Giuffra, Co-Chair of Sullivan & Cromwell. They discuss key challenges and strategies in the law firm industry. Robert highlights the evolving dynamics of law firms, noting that while traditional litigation practices are shrinking at some major firms, Sullivan & Cromwell has maintained and grown its litigation practice. This balanced approach has helped ensure consistent profits, even during economic downturns like 2008, by leveraging the firm’s strengths in financial, regulatory, and litigation work. They also discuss the complexities of managing equity partnerships and maintaining profitability amid changes in client-law firm relationships structures and the consolidation in the client marketplace. It is important to adapt to new market demands, such as expanding tech-related work and diversifying international outreach to include regions like Southeast Asia, India and the Middle East. John and Robert emphasize that it is also necessary to maintain a consistent firm culture that delivers high-quality legal services, noting that clients value creativity, cohesion, and competence. Robert shares anecdotes of being called in to resolve issues mishandled by other firms, attributing Sullivan & Cromwell’s success to the exceptional quality of its attorneys. They also discuss recruitment strategies, emphasizing the importance of attracting top talent and mentoring that talent as it develops, as well as carefully evaluating potential lateral hires to ensure they fit within the firm’s culture. The discussion concludes with reflections on leadership and the critical role of teamwork in professional services organizations. Robert references Harvard professor Jay Lorsch’s book Aligning the Stars and discusses its insights to managing talented individuals with strong egos. Ultimately, both John and Robert agree that a firm’s reputation rests on the quality of its people and their ability to consistently deliver superior results for clients.

How did one article in the newspaper turn into a $12bn case? It starts with the Affordable Care Act, the “risk corridors program” incentivized insurers to enter the new health insurance marketplace by agreeing to backstop outsized losses in the first three years of the exchange’s existence. The Government was refusing to pay amounts in full, losses mounted, and bankruptcies stacked up across the health insurance industry and the country. One little article covering such a bankruptcy crossed JD Horton’s desk and…the rest (all $12 billion of it) is covered in this podcast! In this episode of Law, disrupted, John joins Quinn Emanuel partners Stephen Swedlow & J.D. Horton, who led the recovery of billions of unpaid funds owed under the program in a case that went all the way to the US Supreme Court. In their discussion, they describe how they developed the statutory claim against the federal government under the Tucker Act, and reveal why health insurance companies were reluctant to sue the government and “bite the hand that feeds them.” Highlighting some of the challenges and push-back that they faced along the way, Stephen talks about crisscrossing the country to get 150 entities to join the claim he and Horton were heading, despite competition from several leading healthcare specialist law firms. Tune in for a blow-by-blow description of the tactical decisions they made that led them to victory! The first to file a “risk corridors” case in the nation for reneging on Obamacare’s promise, John’s guests detail how they worked together to drive their prosecution all the way up to the highest court in the land, and win!

John is joined by Hisaya Kimura, Senior Counsel in the Tokyo office of Nagashima Ohno & Tsunematsu. They discuss aspects of the Japanese legal system, including Japan’s historical adoption of the German civil procedure system and subsequent incorporation of elements, such as cross-examination, of the American system. They also discuss how Japanese litigants typically exchange multiple detailed briefs covering both factual and legal issues in detail for years before trial followed by trials that last less than a day with only one witness testifying for each side. They also discuss key differences between Japanese and American litigation, including the absence of discovery, juries, and punitive damages in Japan as well as the application of the beyond reasonable doubt standard in civil litigation. Finally, they discuss recent changes to the legal profession in Japan, including the expansion of Japanese law firms beyond litigation to include advice on regulatory, M&A and competition issues, the expansion of leading Japanese firms into international markets and the impact foreign firms have had by opening Japanese offices.

ESG—or environmental, social, and governance—criteria seems to be everywhere these days. With social issues more visible than ever in our interconnected world, consumers and investors alike are paying more attention to how the businesses they support will help or hinder greater progress for society as a whole. With new metrics for assessing social and environmental impact evolving and targets being embedded into corporate strategy, ESG data is informing decision-making around the world. In this episode of Law, disrupted, John and his guests discuss navigating the evolving ESG legal landscape. This episode features Andrew Malk, the Managing Partner of Malk Partners, a consulting firm focused exclusively on advising private equity firms and investors to create, protect and monitor value through ESG management. John also welcomes Anthony Alden and Julianne Hughes-Jennett, Partners in Quinn Emanuel’s Los Angeles and London offices. During their conversation, John’s guests share insights on how we got to where we are today, what to expect in the future, and what they are seeing from a reputational, regulatory and litigation perspective. They discuss whether society is expecting more accountability from businesses, and highlight a potential shift in the way we view the social contract between businesses, corporations, and individuals. With the rise of concern over sustainability and climate change, companies are experiencing increased pressure to make “green” claims and commitments. The three explore the emergence of various ESG rating systems that aim to meet such demands for transparency and discuss the inherent challenges in simplifying and standardizing comparable metrics. They then consider the SEC’s landmark proposal, which would require public companies to disclose extensive climate-related information in their filings, and debate what matters, and what should be measured. In this conversation, John and his guests detail how ESG considerations are surfacing in the US legal landscape compared with that of the UK and Europe, and highlight an uptick in greenwashing claims as we look to the future wave of ESG litigation.

John is joined by Bill Price, partner in Quinn Emanuel’s Los Angeles office, and Steig Olson, partner in Quinn Emanuel’s New York office. They discuss the landmark $110 million jury verdict, trebled to $330 million under antitrust law, Bill and Steig recently won in the U.S. District Court for the District of Northern California. The award will be increased to compensate for the costs and attorney’s fees incurred by the plaintiff. The dispute arose when Commercial Metals, a Texas-based competitor of Pacific Steel, purchased and shut down California’s only rebar mill, creating a regional monopoly in the rebar market—a critical component in construction. Pacific Steel planned to disrupt this monopoly by building a state-of-the-art, environmentally friendly steel mill using advanced Italian technology. However, Commercial Metals allegedly pressured the Italian supplier to block plaintiff Pacific Steel from accessing the necessary technology by creating a 500-mile radius “exclusivity” zone for the Italian technology around the steel mill they bought and shut down. Victory at trial hinged on simplifying a complex antitrust narrative into a clear, compelling story. Bill and Steig narrowed their case by focusing on the core issues, cutting extraneous expert testimony to streamline the presentation. They used an adverse witness, the former CEO of Commercial Metals, to expose the company’s internal communications, which highlighted its intent to maintain market dominance by obstructing Pacific Steel’s plans. Bill’s cross-examinations proved pivotal in exposing contradictions and discrediting the defendants’ narrative. The defendants primarily argued that the relevant market extended beyond California and that their exclusivity agreements were standard competitive practices. However, the jury found these defenses unconvincing, especially in light of evidence of deliberate efforts to suppress local competition and inflate prices. They also discuss the skillful collaboration between Steig, a rising young trial attorney, and Bill, a seasoned litigator renowned for his many trial victories. This case underscores the importance of strategic focus, persuasive storytelling, and adaptability in high-stakes litigation.