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5Fernando 成为 vegan，是因为一个陌生人说他是伪君子。
那年他 19 岁，在波哥大的一个斗牛场外发传单，呼吁禁止将斗牛向儿童开放。一个路人接过传单，问他吃不吃肉，然后说：「你站在这里为动物发声，回了家却在背后捅动物一刀」。
整段对话不到三十秒。一周后，Fernando 不再吃动物。那个瞬间让他走上了一条路，并创立了哥伦比亚第一个伦理 vegan 组织。
在哥伦比亚，动物生产背后的产业与准军事暴力有着直接的联系。Fernando 把许多人谈论畜牧业生产时忽略的东西串联了起来——当谈论牛肉生产的时候，「碳足迹」是人们的焦点。但在哥伦比亚，牛肉生产背后还有「死亡人口足迹」。哥伦比亚 80%的农业用地用于养牛，拥有这些土地的权贵家族资助私人武装来阻止土地再分配，并在这个过程中杀害了数十万人。哥伦比亚牧场主联合会的前会长也因为与准军事组织的关联而在狱中服刑。
更令人揪心的是暴力带来的麻木。Fernando 成长于 80、90 年代哥伦比亚毒品战争与武装冲突的环境，对暴力早已脱敏。他坦言自己在 PETA（善待动物组织）总部观看极其血腥的动物虐待影像时，他发现自己什么都感觉不到，只能在现场假装哭泣。他意识到，在人类暴力中幸存下来，让他失去了对动物苦难感到震惊的能力。
当面对来自家人朋友的「人还在被杀，为何关心动物的死活？」的质疑声，Fernando 是如何思考的？在这期节目中，他与我们讲述了畜牧业与战争、小农生存的联系，哥伦比亚从禁止斗牛到延伸禁止斗鸡的过程；此外，他还谈到自己所认为有效的 veganism 倡导路径，为什么把 veganism 简化为饮食选择是死胡同，以及斯宾诺莎（Spinoza）哲学和动物解放的内在关联。
Fernando went vegan because a stranger told him he was a hypocrite.
He was 19, handing out leaflets outside a bullfighting arena in Bogota, asking the city to stop letting children watch bulls get killed. A passerby took a leaflet, asked him if he ate meat, and said: "You're standing here defending animals, and then you go home and stab them in the back." The conversation lasted thirty seconds. A week later, Fernando stopped eating meat. That moment set him on a path that would eventually lead him to found the first ethical vegan organization in Colombia — a country where the industries behind animal production have direct ties to paramilitary violence.
In this episode, Fernando connects dots that most veganism conversations miss entirely. When we talk about beef, we talk about carbon footprints. Fernando talks about body counts. Eighty percent of Colombia's agricultural land is used for cattle ranching, and the powerful families who own that land funded private armies to block land redistribution — killing hundreds of thousands of people in the process. The head of Colombia's Cattle Ranchers Federation is now in prison for ties to paramilitary groups. But perhaps the most unsettling thread in this conversation is about desensitisation.
Growing up through the drug wars and armed conflict of the 1980s and 90s in Colombia, Fernando became so numb to violence that when he later watched graphic footage of animal cruelty at PETA's headquarters, he felt nothing. He realised that surviving human violence had stripped him of the ability to feel shock at animal suffering. We also talk about what it means to do vegan advocacy when people around you are in survival mode, why copying Western activist tactics like Anonymous for the Voiceless doesn't work in a country where masks mean someone is about to die, and how Colombia managed to ban bullfighting through a creative legal strategy that then unexpectedly extended to cockfighting. Fernando shares why he believes in community over politics, why reducing veganism to diet is a dead end, and what Spinoza's philosophy has to do with animal liberation.
【时间轴】
00:00 开场介绍
01:47 Fernando 的 vegan 起源故事
03:54 斗牛场外的陌生路人
08:03 哥伦比亚的暴力：如同背景噪音
10:48 暴力脱敏：在 PETA 总部毫无感觉
12:47 "人都在被杀，你怎么还关心一头牛？"
15:15 土地、畜牧与哥伦比亚武装冲突的根源
21:17 养牛业的经济逻辑与死亡之船
25:28 牛肉作为身份象征与牧场主联合会
28:04 环保主义者为何不敢质疑养牛业
30:18 对外部批评的抵触心理
33:07 在哥伦比亚创立第一个伦理 vegan 组织
35:21 匿名网站与死亡威胁的风险
38:56 动物感知法与斗牛禁令
46:25 从政还是社区建设？
47:32 哥伦比亚动物权利运动的变迁
51:47 简化主义路线：少吃肉就够了吗？
54:14 作为活动人士如何保持理智
56:33 斯宾诺莎与必然性学说
01:00:34 在哪里关注 Fernando
Fernando 的写作：soyspinozista.medium.com
Instagram: Soy Espinozista
Andrea Padilla （安德烈亚·帕迪利亚）——播客中提到的推动哥伦比亚政治家，曾任 Anima Naturalis（一个总部位于西班牙、在哥伦比亚设有分部的组织）的发言人。她是一位动物权利倡导者，除了提出严惩虐待动物者的法案，也推动了哥伦比亚的 Empathy Law 《同情心法》（强制要求学校进行对待动物的同情心教育）。
00:00 Introduction
01:47 Fernando's vegan origin story
03:54 The bystander at the bullfighting arena
08:03 Violence in Colombia as background noise
10:48 Desensitisation: feeling nothing at PETA headquarters
12:47 "How can you care about a cow when people are getting killed?"
15:15 Land, cattle, and the roots of Colombia's armed conflict
21:17 The economics of cattle ranching and the ships of death
25:28 Beef as a status symbol and the Cattle Ranchers Federation
28:04 Why environmentalists won't question cattle ranching
30:18 Resistance to outside criticism
33:07 Starting the first ethical vegan org in Colombia
35:21 Anonymous websites and the risk of death threats
38:56 Animal sentience law and the bullfighting ban
46:25 Politics vs. community building
47:32 How Colombia's animal rights movement has changed
51:47 The reductivist approach: Is eating less meat enough?
54:14 Staying sane as an activist
56:33 Spinoza and the doctrine of necessity
01:00:34 Where to find Fernando
